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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 28, 2013 8:07:18 GMT -5
Ok, this is just silly.
The EDF Fleet is laughably and frustratingly inefficient at destroying structures while dealing with the swarms of units that said structures produce.
The only way to do it that I have found is just to set up a screen of smaller ships in front of my Crius, and just setting the Crius to auto attack the factory. It's boring and takes forever.
Need fix or people will say "This game is boring." And move on, which would be bad.
The problem is that if we fix it it will be laughably easy later on.
Maybe have the health of the Alien Structures start out low then increase slowly as the player progresses?
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Post by daiyan on Mar 28, 2013 9:11:37 GMT -5
I think I can't do it well.Because English isn't my mother language.
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Post by Space Borders on Mar 28, 2013 9:35:48 GMT -5
"Even though it says the fleet upgrade will cost money, I don't see any actual deduction." Hm, works fine for me. I've updated many sectors to various levels. When I started I had 500K+, now I barely have 220K left. "Also when defending without the main fleet, we start with 200 credits and credits are not deducted through repairs etc." Yeah, thats because you can't harvest resources when using the EDF fleet, so all repairs and fighter replacement will be handled by the EDF. "Main Fleet cannot be used to attack Heltos (maybe others but I'm only at Heltos)." Are you sure you had the main fleet in "Agavan"? The main fleet can only attack when in an adjacent sector. You will have to move it in the post-attack mode. "Also, list of Alien Structures missing from strategic view (found so far): Reactor, HQ" Yep, confirmed. "Actually how about instead of the system being "EDF attack -> Reinforcement/Fleet movement -> Alien Turn" we change it to "EDF Turn (Reinforce/Move Fleet OR Attack) -> Alien Turn" and then remove the credit requirement? Because if we change it to this the player will have to skip a turn to reinforce, which is worth more than 10K credits." Well, sector configuration is really important and when you make an attack and conquer a sector, you only get a level 1 fleet, which will be super vulnerable if not upgraded before the alien counterattack. Also, in later sectors you can upgrade the EDF fleet to a level of 10, which costs up to 90K actually. "Also we could make the non-main fleet (sounds wierd ) lose strength as battles pass. Like per battle -1% or -2%. Then we can spend credits diring our turn to repair the fleet back to the original state (does not cost a turn)." Could be done, but will cost even more. "What is FSP?" FSP, or fleet support points is the total support you have by the EDF. Once you conquer a sector, you gain more FSP. When increasing the fleet size in a sector, it will be deducted from your remaining FPS. You will find that it is necessary to decrease the fleet size of some (less important) sector, to strengthen the front line sectors. "I like it! ^.^" I'm glad you do. "The EDF Fleet is laughably and frustratingly inefficient at destroying structures while dealing with the swarms of units that said structures produce. The only way to do it that I have found is just to set up a screen of smaller ships in front of my Crius, and just setting the Crius to auto attack the factory. It's boring and takes forever." It really depends on the fleet strength you attack with. But yeah, I know the first few missions take long because of that problem. It would also be faster if you used the special attack mode of the Crius. Deals a lot more damage. "Need fix or people will say "This game is boring." And move on, which would be bad. The problem is that if we fix it it will be laughably easy later on. Maybe have the health of the Alien Structures start out low then increase slowly as the player progresses?" Yeah that's a good idea, making the stations health depend on the enemy fleet strength. This is actually what I'm already doing with the alien HQ. Maybe the easiest sectors should start with 50% or even only 25% of the maximum health for factories and reactors? NormanconThanks, but it really depends on the type of bug. daiyanNo problem. You can still beta test the game if you want.
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Post by Space Borders on Mar 28, 2013 10:23:14 GMT -5
OK, fixed some of the bugs and changed the health of reactors and factories to 35% of their original health (for level 1 enemies). For every extra level the health will increase by 10%, therefore level 10 reactors and factories will have 125% of health. A level 10 EDF fleet will have 2 Crius + 3 Cerberus + 1 Hydra + 1 Nuke Centaur + 1 Aegaeon, so I guess it's fair that way. ;D At 35% health it takes around 3 missile volleys from a Crius and a couple of mines to take out a light factory. EDIT: I've played a few of the easy sectors and finished them pretty damn fast, perhaps it was too easy. Since all factories are visible right from the beginning you just have to rush them with the Crius. 3 volleys + 2 mine attacks, boom, the light station is gone. Kinda too easy really. So we can either hide the stations -OR- increase the health of the stations to say 50% of the original -OR- increase their distance to the starting point of the player, so that the aliens have time to produce at least some ships. Don't know, what do you think? EDIT 2: OK, after playing some more and reaching the harder levels, it turned out OK and who wants even more challenge can still use the difficulty setting.
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 28, 2013 21:35:27 GMT -5
""Actually how about instead of the system being "EDF attack -> Reinforcement/Fleet movement -> Alien Turn" we change it to "EDF Turn (Reinforce/Move Fleet OR Attack) -> Alien Turn" and then remove the credit requirement? Because if we change it to this the player will have to skip a turn to reinforce, which is worth more than 10K credits." Well, sector configuration is really important and when you make an attack and conquer a sector, you only get a level 1 fleet, which will be super vulnerable if not upgraded before the alien counterattack. Also, in later sectors you can upgrade the EDF fleet to a level of 10, which costs up to 90K actually. "Also we could make the non-main fleet (sounds wierd ) lose strength as battles pass. Like per battle -1% or -2%. Then we can spend credits diring our turn to repair the fleet back to the original state (does not cost a turn)." Could be done, but will cost even more." Sorry if I was unclear I meant that reinforcing the fleet wouldn't cost credits, just a turn. Then repairing would cost credits. Not that credits+turn to reinforce + credits to repair.
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 28, 2013 21:36:51 GMT -5
Oh I also find it odd that Bustopa can go up to 40% but the fleet has nowhere to go because Bustopa isn't linked to any enemy sectors.
Is this like a trick sector to make us waste fleet points? Lol
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Post by Space Borders on Mar 29, 2013 6:08:18 GMT -5
Actually you were clear, the problem is that I wasn't. You said that we should rather have the choice between an attack OR reinforcement/moving main fleet. The problem is that after you have conquered a sector it gets a level 1 fleet. If you cannot configure the sector to have a stronger fleet, it is very likely that the AI will attack it and that you will lose (for sure in the more difficult sectors). The only way from instantly losing a sector in a following counterattack turn, is to reinforce it in the "post attack turn". In other words, it will be difficult to change it to the way you have suggested unless we make some other modifications as well, like the ability to at least configure a sector you have just captured (but this would introduce other difficulties like when you need some FSP from other sectors). So if we do not change this, then the justification for removing the cost for fleet modification is no longer valid and hence adding fleet repair costs would mean even more spending. I know you meant that there should either be repairs -or- fleet purchases, but was basing my arguments on my initial reasoning, that we don't have a "mixed" turn to begin with. Also, generally losing a turn can be a real pain, because you will have to defend two sectors in a row and can't make any progress. Since you will have to make a lot of modifications to your fleet, you will most likely end up being super frustrated, because of the many extra counterattack turns. So what about reducing the cost a little bit? 90K for maxing out a sector seems to be quite a lot, that's like one DSM run. Also, what do you think about earning resources when using the EDF fleet? I was thinking that perhaps once the Hercules arrives, a special EDF harvester should come with it. So during the construction of the EDF HQ you can harvest resources. In "Bustopa", yeah it's not exactly an intended trick. See, the maximum number of EDF fleet in a sector is twice the number of the alien presence in that sector. Because the alien fleet strength is 2 in that sector, you can upgrade your fleet to level 4. Knowing that some might be too "lazy" to capture "Bustopa", because it's a dead end, I placed a stronger fleet there, that would be a good entry point for annoying alien invasions every now and then. Of course upgrading the fleet there would be a total waste of everything and yeah, in a way that's up to the player to realize, which you obviously did. Btw. thanks for all the feedback. It seems that currently you are the only one beta testing and I'm really, really grateful for the feedback. It would be a real shame if "Conquest Mode" would be ruined by a few numbers that need to be changed. Right now my internet connection is throttled down to an embarrassingly low speed, so I can't upload any new builds, but I believe that within the next 24h the subscription will be renewed. Until then I will try to find more bugs and fix the ones you have mentioned. Also, if you find any other annoying issues or have any more thoughts about what could be added/removed or changed, let me know.
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 29, 2013 8:44:19 GMT -5
Oh ok. Now that you point it out I feel silly for not thinking of that. The harvester with the Hercules could work. Also, it seems unrealistic that the base would have absolutely no defence. Maybe give it a couple lasers or flak turrets? Just for basic point defence. Also how about allowing us to launch a fighter (and maybe miner) from the base?
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 29, 2013 10:01:58 GMT -5
Is there any way to give the missions more variety than just base attack and defence?
Right now it's kinda repetitive...
How about... Convoy defence! Have a convoy of 5 Cargomasters going from one point to another (say -25,-25 to 25,25), with Aliens attacking from the sides. You control the escort and protect the convoy as it passes. At least 2 Cargomasters must survive.
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 29, 2013 10:03:54 GMT -5
Oh also, I don't think Starport One is a good sector name Maybe give it some other name and mention Starport One in the description?
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 29, 2013 10:22:08 GMT -5
Another post! (Because 3 in a row isn't enough ) Are enemy ships supposed to be damageable while being made in the factory? When I just let my Crius auto attack the factory the fighters produced die before they can even move and others get reduced to half health, making them easy to destroy. I'm playing on max difficulty BTW.
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Post by Clinkzbone on Mar 29, 2013 10:31:27 GMT -5
5th post in a row :/ The credit deduction system works. I was just mining about the same amount as I was using. Also, you might want to include a tutorial for Conquest Mode, to explain the plot (not that there is much really), and also to explain things like Fleet Points. IDEA: Retaking Starport One can act as tutorial mission. Just 1 reactor and factory on 25% health, so it's quicker. During mission, explain how factories produce ships, how reactors affect things, etc. Then after that mission, send the player to the map where more popups appear explaining Fleet Points, upgrading the fleet, moving the fleet etc.
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Post by Space Borders on Mar 29, 2013 12:58:13 GMT -5
Some defenses can be added to the HQ. No problem at all. Yes you are totally right, CM is pretty repetitive and really does require some variation. Here is the thing: If we implement say 4 or 5 variations, we also have to make each of them suitable for the ten levels of difficulty. Would be a loooot of cases and testing. So after thinking about the whole thing for some time, I had an idea which would make the whole thing easier and also more useful. Right now the only thing that's pretty much constant in the CM universe is the main fleet. It is also the only thing that kinda doesn't fit in the CM universe. So how about taking the main fleet completely out of attacks and sector defense and instead introduce "special ops kinda" missions in between the CM sector attacks. Instead of having the aliens do a standard counterattack every time, they would sometimes attack a convoy or some other station, or the EDF would send you out on a special mission, all of it with the main fleet. At least that way we would only have to worry about one difficulty & the main fleet would have a real purpose & also this is how you could get to resources every second turn. I've improved sector attacks a little by randomizing the layout and also by adding aliens ships around some of the stations. Yeah, ships can be damaged while being produced. I thought it made more sense that way. After all, they would be affected by the attacks as well, but it can be changed. Yeah, of course an introduction and a tutorial will be added, this is just a test version which is all about the core gameplay.
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Post by Space Borders on Mar 29, 2013 13:31:43 GMT -5
OK, here are five variations we can use:
- The usual, defend the HQ. - The one you have already suggested: Convoy escort from one location to another. - Protect some incoming ships. - Protect Hercules while it is constructing some stations in a sector. - Assist a fleet in an attack on an enemy base.
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Post by joe130794 on Mar 29, 2013 17:32:51 GMT -5
So the assist in a attack on an enemy base would be similar to the last stand with admiral fords battle group. Maybe more capital ships so it is a decent battle.
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